Working on an article on Low for Pulse of the Twin Cities, I was thrilled for the chance to interview Alan Sparhawk in early December. Coming off of a tumultuous year in which his band released the most ambitious album of their career, canceled a tour because of mental health issues, and lost longtime bass player Zak Sally, Sparhawk was affable and-- typically-- very open. As is quite often the case, the interview generated far more interesting material than I could possibly squeeze into a 1,000-word article, and I'm pleased to offer up the whole thing here.

AN: It's an honor to be able to speak to you. Your record has taken over my brain for the past year.

AS: Wow. That's great. Not that we intended to take over your brain. But we're glad to have been part of your moments.

AN: How are you feeling?

AS: Me? I'm doing all right. Trying to keep my mind on worthwhile things.

AN: Such as?

AS: Family. Running. Working on my garage.

AN: Excellent. Is it intimidating to be about to get back into touring, picking up after that last tour's interruption?

AS: A little bit, I suppose. I'm excited about it-- I'm always excited about playing. I try to be cautious about working too hard... I have to be careful not to have too much stuff going on.

AN: I understand. How is losing Zak affecting your getting ready?

AS: It's tough, but it's something that's been going on for a while with everybody. It's stressful, it's hard. Some things that had to do with the band, some things that had to do with everybody else's situations. You know, Zak's married, and he has a son now. I don't know... we've been doing this for a long time, and I don't think anyone should have to expect that anyone else would always have the same drive, the same balance as to whether they want to do it or not.

Are there things that I could have done differently that would have kept him in the band? I don't know. There are so many things... I don't know. I talk to him the other day and we didn't talk about music.

AN: Since you've been at this for quite a while now, do you find that Low's place in your life has changed?

AS: No, I don't think so. I mean, I remember being younger and getting in the band and really being just like dropping my whole life and throwing it into the band; being reckless about what we were doing with the band, and what we were doing with our lives. Sacrificing certain things to chase, to gamble on our dreams.

As you get older, the longer you do things, it's not like one thing taking over another as much as the band or the dream or that thing that we dropped everything and hopped into the pickup and went to do has provided a broader capacity for us to do it. We can afford to have kids and to feed them. We've been able to be home or with our children the whole time, without having to work. When you factor all of these things in with the time and friendship and connections you make over the years, it builds up into this very large and very humbling world that we're able to experience. I try not to take that for granted very often, but I think there's always a sense that we've always known what's driven us. And it's always still there.

And the question in longevity is to deal with yourself in a real perspective and recognize what you're bring driven by... See if the lifestyle, the career, these appendages are driving the dream instead of the artistic desires.

I don't know; I think each just feeds off each other. I mean our children, especially Hollis, have been able to do all kinds of great things with their family because of what we do.

AN: Yeah, that would be a heck of a childhood.

AS: So it hasn't really felt like sacrifice, or that we've had to make some sort of shift because we're older. I think we're blessed to have that large of a world.

AN: A second ago, you mentioned winding up in a public world, and that's close to a question that I was meaning--

AS: Did I say public?

AN: Yeah... I think, anyway.

AS: I don't think I said public... I don't know what I... shit, I don't know. Public?

AN: I might have misheard you. [yep-- “humble” world, not public]

AS: I really believe that we're so slightly affected by celebrity. I don't think being kind of on a very small, small scale a recognized artist, I don't think that's changed our drive or our attitude or our family. We're not like, “oh, what are we going to do, how are we going to raise our children differently?” Anyway, what were you going to ask?

AN: Well, a lot of your lyrics seem to be really intensely personal, reflecting a lot of pretty strong emotions. I was wondering, when you're performing, do you ever have these moments where you say to yourself, “I can't believe I'm revealing this much! I can't believe I'm letting this all hang out!”?

AS: I think that by the time I've finished a song and decided whether I like it and whether it's something that I can now play in front of people, I think that's when that decision usually is made. So later when you're playing live, it's only just those moments every once in a while that grab you by the throat in general. “Holy shit! All these fucking people are looking at me!”

AN: “What am I doing here?”

AS: but nonetheless, it's... I don't know. I know I'm being open like that, but I learned early on that it's like, if you're going to get up there, man, what's the point in hiding? You know, you're on stage. Why go only 72 percent? If that's how you feel, just lay it on paper. because if you don't, it's going to suck.

Good music is good music because it's honest. The artists that I respect the most are the ones who, when they open their mouths and start singing or playing, that it's coming through clear, that they're not playing around with you. Everything from Iggy Pop to Barbra Streisand to the Nation of Ulysses-- if you see them do what they do, the reason it's good is because you know it's coming clear from inside them. I mean, if you're going to do that, you have to be prepared for the fact that you're going to have to lay it down in front of a lot of people. In front of an audience, anyway.

When we started the band, it was always kind of a dare. Seriously. When we first started, it was like, “Wow, everyone's going to be really uncomfortable.” But what's the point in pussyfooting around, why not just call it what it is? Just say what it is, because it's already going to be hard for most people to listen to. Why be guarded? go all the way.

So that was our attitude from the beginning, it was just gradual over time. There was never a moment where there was like one day we're up there and everybody's running for the door and we're standing in front really liking it.

It didn't suddenly turn into “Holy crap, we're at Madison Square Garden.” It was just gradual, you know? It took thirteen years to be able to play a show at First Avenue and have some hope of maybe almost filling the place.

Maybe.

AN: I've just been assuming it would sell out.

AS: Well, I hope so. I don't know. It's tough sometimes. Christmas... it's a coveted evening of the holiday season, and people have to decide that the Low Christmas show is where they want to be.

It's going to be a good show, none the less.

AN: I'm pretty excited for it.... is it explicitly going to be a Christmas show?

AS: Pretty much, yeah. I think about two-thirds of the show will be Christmas stuff.

AN: Awesome.

AS: And then the other songs we're playing are somewhat related. And then a few new songs, stuff like that. Christmas songs that we've been working on.

AN: Awesome. Will there be any material from The Great Destroyer?

AS: Yeah, I think we'll do some, for sure. That'll probably make up a lot of the “just the three of us” section of the show. We have some other people from Duluth that are going to be helping us flesh out some songs. It's kind of got a Kathie Lee Gifford vibe to it. I dunno, it's fun. We've been rehearsing a lot lately, and it's really exciting.

Like the first song on our Christmas record, called “Just Like Christmas,” when we put that record out, we just assumed that we were never going to play it live because there's so much going on. The whole beauty of that song is that there's just a huge wall of sound. Or wall of noise. But with some extra musicians, it really comes together, and I'm really excited about it. It's one of my favorite songs we've ever done.

Sorry, I'm pacing around outside in the cold. I probably sound a little frantic.

AN: No problem. I can try to keep this short if I'm freezing you to death.

AS: It's fine. Maybe I'll go sit in my van and warm up while I'm talking to you.

I'm out at the... someone started a recycled construction materials place here in Duluth, and it's really awesome. I come here all the time.

OK I've got to start it up here, hold on...

Aaah.

AN: I've got a couple of questions for you about The Great Destroyer, one year out, if you're up for those.

AS: Sure.

AN: For starters, how do you feel about the album now that it's been out for a year and you guys have gotten all these accolades for it. How does it sit with you now?

AS: Just the record itself?

AN: Yeah.

AS: The shows we played earlier in the year, up until May, despite it being sort of an unhealthy time for me, I thought our shows were really going well, we were really excited. The last leg we did, in April, in Europe, it went really well. We were finally finding a groove and figuring out how to play this louder stuff. I was excited about playing this stuff, and it was going well up until that time.

So I dunno, I like the songs, still, and we're still mutating as to how we play it, even, from that time. It's kind of weird. It's kind of a little... I have no idea what's going on with that record. I like it. But between the Christmas stuff and a pile of other stuff I've been working on... It's been hard because when we've got someone else playing bass, it's definitely different, slightly a different feel. Nobody plays the same as Zak does, he had a unique approach. An approach that took all of this time to get to.

It'll be different, working with someone else. I mean, it's still someone who I've known for a number of years, and I know the way he works musically. We've worked together a lot in the past, so I'm not completely going in blind. Already, things are working that I think perhaps would have been harder to do before. And vice versa. Honestly, there's some stuff on The Great Destroyer that I just kind of painted myself in a corner on, don't really feel strong playing them live.

AN: Like what? What would be some examples there?

AS: [laughs] I don't want to say, because I might go on about how I can't play it, and then a month later be like, “Oh, I forgot about that.”

It's a process we're working out right now. It's important to me to have a foothold when playing live. Even if we're not completely perfect, still floating around and still trying to find where it's going to land, I'm pretty determined to make sure that it's found its own spirit, you know?

I don't know. We just need to play. That's how it worked with Zak. When Zak joined, we were still all barely learning how to play our instruments, and we all took a long time to find what we found. I'm up for the adventure, the struggle. The time it took for us to find ourselves in the beginning was an exciting thing. If we're going to go and do it again, I look forward to that, too.

All I know is that right now I'm having a hard time figuring out how to be happy with the guitar.

AN: How so?

AS: Oh, I don't know. I think the only thing that I'm really happy with is when it gets really loud. I play in this other band, the Retribution Gospel Choir, and that's really been a loud rock thing, and I've kind of discovered of late that the way I approach the guitar really conflicts well with volume.

Like, after all those years of playing quiet, and trying to get as big of a sound as possible out of the guitar when you're only playing quiet, you know, you plug into a loud amp and suddenly it's huge.

AN: Talking about guitar, I had a question that's more personal curiosity than for the article... what are you doing to your guitar on the lead part to “Just Stand Back?” How are you getting that sound?

AS: I think that's a Fuzz Factory, and, um, I don't know, some.... I don't know, I'm trying to think... it's... [sings guitar lines] Which one?

AN: Just Stand Back? It kicks in about a minute into the song, I don't know if I should call it the lead part. It shows up about a minute into the song, it's high and kind of droning.

AS: I don't know. It's just a really nasty, noisy guitar part. I just tried to make a noise that sounded musical and like ripping everything apart at the same time. That's my favorite sound, the beautiful ripping sound.

AN: You also talked about the retribution Gospel Choir. You're really prolific with the side projects. Is that--

AS: It's a sickness. Maybe I'm just selfish or something. It's like, “Hey, I've got an idea. I'll call some guys I know, and we'll try it out.” Sometimes it's cool, sometimes it's not, and sometimes it's good enough that we'll go and do a few shows, see what happens.

AN: Will there be more Black Eyed Snakes records?

AS: We keep talking about it. We've been talking to Charlie Parr about doing a gospel record for the past year or so. Everybody's been busy or sick or whatever, so we haven't really put to much to it. We've been playing some shows here and there, it's been really fun, but we're definitely to the point where we need some new songs.

AN: I've got a broader question about the music industry and how you guys fit into it.... Do you think that, now that iTunes is becoming more popular, and more people get their music by downloading individual songs rather than buying CDs, does that affect the way you think about making music? Do you think more about making singles than albums?

AS: I haven't gone that far yet, but I have kind of resigned myself to the idea that from now on, the only people that are going to buy the record at the store are the people who have already heard it and liked it, or the fans, or they just have a bunch of money, and they're at the store, and they're stupid, and they heard about it from someone else—they're not stupid, I'm sorry, that's actually good! You should buy records on the tips of good friends!

So, I dunno. I think people who actually give a shit about music are still going to buy stuff. They're going to have a broader palette of what they're going to listen to, and they're going to be maybe a little more…

I think people will have a shorter span of attention with music. I think it's rare now for people to be like "Wow, I've been listening to Sticky Fingers for like a week, and it's great, man!" You're still going to get that, but I think your general music listener is going to be much more interested in the singles, I agree.

People who really like music, I think, are still going to like the tactile elements that have to do with "I bought this CD that this particular band made." What's going to happen, then, is that the major labels, since what they're putting out on CDs is just cheap… it's just the same crap that you already downloaded on your computer, except now you've got it stored on something that'll make you slip on the floor of your car, with the case and all that shit.

My personal belief is that for independent music and people who are making music for people who like music, it's going to become much more important to make the package or the object or the buying of it more of a satisfying experience. So that the person knows that they have something in their hand that they know that it's connected with that artist that they like and at least subconsciously, they feel like they're supporting that. Which I think is great news for indie music, actually, because I think smaller labels, people who only sell a couple thousand will still be able to sell roughly that amount, because the people who are buying their stuff are the kind of people who want to buy stuff, and to have it on hand.

I can definitely see the potential of "Oh, I heard on Howard Stern about some cool band called Counting Crows!" and they check it out on the internet, decide that they like it, and they've read about it and heard about it enough that they decide that it's hip enough that they're going to buy the CD so that they can have it in their car or in their CD collection in the house so that at parties people will look at their CD collection and go, "Dude. This guy's hip!" Potentially, there's that end.

Generally, people who are buying music because they're interested in hearing good music and they want to hear new stuff and they know the quality when they hear it, I guess they'll buy stuff.

We have our label, and we've been putting stuff out. Most of it doesn't sell, but some of it does. I think the key, the thing we try to work on with our label is actually making the packaging something a little more personal, something hands-on. The Keep Aways actually sewed together cloth sleeves for their CD… We've got a couple of releases coming up where people are doing their sleeves on their own, hand-screened or whatever. It adds to the element of having something in your hand, it's that much more connected, the band actually sat around and drank beer one night and assembled these three thousand sleeves and here it is now, in your hand, and thanks for purchasing.

AN: It sounds a lot like indie bands from the 80s who would mail out 7-inches and put things in the sleeves…

AS: Mail out pictures, yeah. Yeah. That element has always been there, and I think maybe through the late 90s we lost touch with it, and things turned towards more of a short-term commercial direction.

Ahh, who knows. It could all go to hell. Nobody cares about music when the economy goes to pot and we're getting blown up.

AN: On the other hand, a lot of good music came out of the Great Depression. Maybe a good crisis is what we need.

AS: Yeah. Put it back in the hands of people, where it's supposed to be.

AN: Thanks a lot for talking to me… hope you didn't get too cold, sitting in the van.

AS: No, I'm warm now.

AN: Excellent. Have a good rest of the day, and I'm looking forward to the show.

AS: I'm looking forward to it, too. I don't know if you've checked our website, there's an announcement that some of the money from the show is going to a Masai school in a village in Kenya. It'll be up on the site. It's something that we're trying to do. it's a long story; we're trying to help out this guy who's been doing a lot of work for the Masai.

AN: I'll take a look. Thanks a lot.

AS: Thanks for calling and putting up with my rambling.